2003-03-02 SvsG Emails

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2003 Messages

2003 Overview

Staddon vs. Griever: SvsG Messages: 2003

23:40 from Bubba

Nick Notes

After sending the message to which Bubba is replying, I realized "abuser" was closer to what I meant than "rapist"; "rapist" felt a bit extreme, but at the time I couldn't think of a better word.


Message-Id: <>
Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 23:40:06 -0500
To: "N. Staddon" <nspam@spamredhousespam.spamcom>
From: Bubba <b-2023-02-2-21:50-spam@vbzspam.net>
Subject: Re: metaphor
In-Reply-To: <3E6253FF.2090201spam@spamredhousespam.spamcom>

N., this is a good metaphor. If I asked to involve your foot then yes you are correct. Did I ask to drop something on your foot or did I just say that I need to drop this something and you said your foot might be in the way? As it turns out nothing has hit your foot yet and we don't know if it will or how much it will hurt if it does. So actually it was pre-pain pain and that's called psychosomatic which means until it hits you, it's a waste of your energy getting angry since it wasn't done intentionally and you've yet to be hurt.

I did not nor did I ever attempt to deny you your right to anger. Get as angry as you like. That's a right I will defend to the death. I said don't yell at me. Saying that I abused you in an abusive manner is a tit for tat mind set that's never accomplished anything. I've proven that I will listen to your side of anything. If you tell me I screwed up, I accept culpability where applicable for it and work to fix it or subscribe to fix it asap.

(The following FUCK YOU's are of the " Massive insult about which I'm extremely upset that you uttered. I don't see where you are coming from and I cannot accept even a little bit of that as truth and you should be apologizing to offended parties" variety. They are not to be confused w/the all encompassing "DIE YOU (Insert list of derogatory expletives here)" variety)

As far as likening this to a rape and me to a rapist...FUCK YOU! FUCK YOU from me and women that have been raped. From me I can only say FUCK YOU for likening me to a rapist because this implies that I did it w/much forethought, planning and a vicious malicious intent seeking to debase you w/o your participation to empower myself. Me saying don't yell at me was NOT telling you to shut up and quit whining? Me missing the bank was not intentional and drastically pales in comparison to the vicious degrading act of rape. Hell, it's not even in the column of victimization, let alone that far down the list. Do you think I want to come up w/$28 per bounced item for which I am responsible? Are you nuts? (Rhetorical) From survivors of rape the FUCK YOU is for comparing a minor potential financial hiccup to their experiences.

Your cause for anger has no roots outside of not being told that I didn't make it to the bank which I probably would have mentioned at some point in the day and let you know that I'll be there to post it and ask them to make sure it keeps things from bouncing. Had I made the bank, you still would have been waiting till Mon. to see if it mattered and I wouldn't have been there to ask them to make sure it posts in time. It has cost you nothing yet and until it does my not telling you is a moot point. Telling you that I didn't make the bank would only have given you info about something that there is nothing either one of us can do anything about till Mon morning and I'll be there to do it as if it had gotten into the bank on Fri after 2 which is when it would have gotten in anyway (not showing up till business day Mon. which is when I'll be there).

You must enjoy feeling victimized. To twist me potentially screwing myself financially into victimizing you seems masochistic.


At 01:57 PM 3/2/03 -0500, you wrote:

I was thinking about how you were trying to make it sound as though my being angry was completely unnecessary (isn't that something rapists do -- deny the victim their right to anger?), presumably because things would just be so much easier if I would ask nicely or something. (Never mind that I did ask nicely at least once.)

I found myself thinking "Bubba, if you step on my foot, I'm likely to get angry about it -- at least until you apologize."

Which made me think of a metaphor. Let's say you were dropping something on my foot. For the sake of argument, let's say there was a perfectly good reason for this (can't think of one off the top of my head, but no metaphor is perfect). Let's also imagine that moving my foot is difficult and time-consuming, that I can't see what's going on, and that there's time for discussion and action while the weight is falling.

So you asked if it was ok if you dropped something on my foot, and I said sure -- as long as you put something in the way to absorb the impact so it won't hurt. You say ok, sure, you can do that.

So the time comes to put something in the way to absorb the impact, and you suddenly realize you have to go across the room to get it. By the time you get back, unfortunately, it turns out that the weight has fallen too far, and the impact-absorber will no longer fit between the weight and my foot.

  • Wouldn't you say, at that point, that you perhaps were ethically obliged to give me some kind of heads-up? "Be prepared for foot pain. Sorry. Miscalculation."
  • And say you didn't give me a heads-up and I had to ask several times before I found out that I should be expecting a sharp pain early next week (unless I can manage to move my foot or otherwise fix the problem), wouldn't you say that was cause for anger?

Hope this makes sense.