2002-09-05 SvsG Emails

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Staddon vs. Griever: SvsG Messages: 2002

2002 Messages

2002 Overview

11:32 from Lynne


It looks like this wasn't actually sent to me originally, but was actually forwarded to me the next day as part of Lynne's 01:43 email. Again, I've put in paragraph breaks where they seem to have been intended.

This would be one example of Lynne requesting a face-to-face meeting to clear things up because it was too complicated to do via email. My experience of those face-to-face meetings, when they did happen, was that I ended up agreeing to a lot of stuff I either didn't want to agree to or didn't remember agreeing to (or both), and nothing "agreed to" was ever confirmed in writing. As a result of this, I was skeptical then (and am now even more skeptical) of Lynne's claims of the efficacy of such meetings.


Message-ID: <3D77790E.6060006spam@spamredhousespam.spamcom>
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 2002 11:32:30 -0400
From: "Lynne G." <lynnespam@spamredhousespam.spamcom>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win95; en-US; rv:1.0.0) Gecko/20020530
To: Bubba <b-2020-12-4-04:20-spam@vbzspam.net>
Subject: Mountain order
References: <3D743E80.6070704spam@spamvbzspam.spamnet>

Hey guys,

I thought I would put this in an email so that you, Nick, would have this to remember that we talked about it. ...

I'm having a hard time reconciling the history of our deposits into SunTrust for the orders and the turn around... etc. I am working on it on my end... but we really need to sit down and compare notes in real time... until we reach clarity on it. We agreed that you would not take monies out until we got clear on it so that I wouldn't have any surprises come up in my figuring.

Auto-debits are surprises that neither of us probably thought about but they are weighing in from time to time, as well as some other stuff that I can't figure out what they are... so...I was thinking we'd sit down and talk about it today, the 5th, but you are still in NC.

I've told Bubba to go ahead and place the Mountain order but I wanted to make it public that according to my figures... we haven't gotten our money back from the last orders and we're leaving it in for another one when we really need the money for the rent by the 10th. That is reasonable turn-around... 5 days... I just want to be sure that we also have understandings in place by then, as well.

It makes me very uncomfortable when we can't sit down and look at the figures and go back and forth between each other until we are on the same page. I cannot remember a time when we actually sat down for that purpose and were unable to reach an understanding... So... with that in mind... and with it in an email so it's a memorable conversation... My points were:

1) We need to sit down and talk about where we are with SunTrust and the orders...
2) We're clear that we are not clear on it now... so we need to make it a priority...
3) We're going ahead with the Mountain order with the understanding that we need to clear up things before our rent is due...

and to add another issue we've all had on the back burner... in this same conversation we need to talk about setting things up so we don't have this confusion with the money. One of the things that we agree needs to happen is that RDA get a separate acct. at SunTrust... with a separate card for RDA stuff...

That should do it for now... I think I'll just send it to Bubba and Bubba can fwd it to you at the appropriate time and ask you to check your email since it's too big for ICQ anyway...

Gotta go to a board meeting....

See ya later...

Lynne :-)

11:35 from Nick

BCC: harena-2020-12-4-04:20-spam@redhousespam.com, tigger-2020-12-4-04:20-spam@redhousespam.com
Message-ID: <3D7779AB.9010106spam@spamredhousespam.spamcom>
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 2002 11:35:07 -0400
From: "N. Staddon" <nspam@spamredhousespam.spamcom>
To: bubba-2020-12-4-04:20-spam@redhousespam.com
CC: "Lynne G." <lynnespam@spamredhousespam.spamcom>
Subject: phone convo partial answer

Hi Bubba,

I've been mulling over our phone conversation (as promised), and here are some responses. You're probably not gonna like a lot of what I say, but I hope it counts for something that this is truly what I think ("dis is de vulcan harrt, dis is de vulcan sooul"). I've tried not to come across as accusatory or judgemental, but I seem to have a hard time avoiding that when writing to youse guys about stuff that seems important and real and true to me. But here goes...

Issue #1: returning today, or at any rate in time to help you with moving your stuff out.

Lately, I've been trying to make choices and decisions for my own reasons rather than because I'm afraid of what someone will do or say if I make the "wrong" choice (according to them). Making choices based on fear has got me 10 years of marriage (and you know the relevant details of that), a kid I wasn't ready for*, a piano I wouldn't have bought for myself under any circumstances at that price, a mixing board (the big one) I didn't need/want under those particular circumstances, equipment I never had time to use because the debt they forced me into took away the time I should have had to use them, Chris Cox and "Cox-Staddon Enterprises"... There may be other large examples, but those are the ones that spring to mind.

[ * well yes, who _could_ be prepared for Anna ;-), but I had prerequisites in my head long ago for what would have to be in place before I would have a kid -- and none of those things were in place at the time. ]

So, going on the theory that I shouldn't need to be afraid of the people I'm in business with, I am making my own evaluation of the situation and basing my decision on that.

You don't need me there. I've done my bit; I moved my stuff, which is about 10 times as much stuff as you have to move, as well as much of the business's (our) stuff and some of your stuff. I am now very tired (mainly mentally, though somewhat physically still) of moving stuff, and besides my bank account is down to $6 (as of several days ago; I haven't dared check it since, because there's not a lot I can do about it until Juliet's check arrives -- short of taking out Yet Another (personal) Loan) and I simply can't spare the time for more moving. (Need it for working & getting caught up.)

I also feel like I shouldn't have to excuse myself for this decision -- but another part of me wants you to understand. This is probably the same part of me which is afraid of people's negative opinions and just wants everyone to like me, so I often wonder if I should be listening to it at all (given the mess it's gotten me into as discussed above). But it seems harmless enough just to try to communicate about these things, as long as I don't let the explanation become an excuse and then an apology...

I have to think more about what needs to happen as far as shelving and such (getting the Hull Rd. location ready for regular business); clearly there should be some more organization, shelving, whatever -- but we also clearly had some communication issues about how and when it was going to be done... Separate discussion. Plus there's Issue #3, which may well affect what we're aiming for.

Issue #2: "Me and them", "We're all in this together", sharing stuff, etc.

We may have a subtle difference of philosophy on this one. I do believe that your stuff is your stuff and my stuff is my stuff. I could go into reasons why this makes sense even if one's primary motivation is the common good, but that wouldn't be the point. I also think it's fine to share stuff, but I do draw lines between what is "ours", what is "mine for you to share", and what is "mine alone". (Likewise, I respect any similar boundaries you might place on your stuff.)

You were sounding like you were trying to say that I shouldn't be drawing a line between my stuff and your stuff, because all our stuff is shared, and therefore that the stuff still remaining at Red House is equally my responsibility to move. (Perhaps I'm misunderstanding, but if that's what you were saying then I have to disagree.)

Even if that were true, I don't think I've been a slacker about it. I've moved my weight of what would be our stuff, if I saw it that way (all "ours"). If it were all "our stuff", I've moved far more than my portion -- but I don't think you'd want much of what I had to move anyhow; it's stuff that matters to me, not to you -- just as you have stuff that matters to you and not to me. Just one more reason why I think it makes sense to have separate stuff even if one also has shared stuff.

So, tell me again why I should be there to help you move your stuff when I've already moved my stuff with minimal assistance (requested, not demanded). The only thing you have for which you might need assistance, as far as I know, would be the copy machine; if you would like reasons why I don't think it's my responsibility to change my plans in order to make it possible for me to help with that, I can go into them (though I would certainly offer to help if I was going to be there when you were moving it). All the rest of your stuff could be removed by one person and a truck within an afternoon, as far as I can tell.

Issue #2a: "I'm taking care of me, screw you".

I'm not quite sure what this implies. At a minimum, it seems to be saying that I'm looking out for my own interests and giving the common good short shrift. At worst, it would seem to imply that I'm being an active parasite on the common good and taking shared resources for my own interests.

I think I agree that it makes sense to put one's own interests first and the common good second; the fall of communism kinda proved that "everyone owns everything" is no way to prosper. (I think we've agreed we all want to prosper -- want it so badly we can taste it.) Putting the common good second is very different from putting it last, or actively working against it. I'm not doing either of those things.

I also think that I've poured resources (many of them which I had to borrow in order to put out various fires) into the common good (Red House and therefore indirectly the RDA, as well as directly helping the RDA on occasion) and gotten very little out of it in return.

So just what were you saying?

Issue #3: being there.

If I haven't made it clear yet, I'm planning to be in Athens a lot less. For various reasons, I don't really feel that I have a home on Hull Rd., and obviously I no longer have one anywhere else in the area. I have tried to make changes so We House would feel more like home to me, but those changes seemed to be very much against the flow of how things work there -- and add on top of that the fact that Durham has always felt more like home than Athens, and that there is a place in Durham (Sandy's) which very quickly began to feel like home once I spent some time in it -- and soon there didn't seem to be much point in putting a great deal of energy into making a home at Hull Rd. (But I did try; to try harder, I think, would have been anti-karmic.) It can be a fairly comfortable office-and-living-quarters, which is a very useful thing to have, but I don't see it coming to much more than that.

The question then is, what changes would you need to make in order to be able to continue without my constant presence? Do you still wish to continue with vbz/RH without my constant presence? (Is there any way we could move the whole shebang up here?I've avoided asking this because I'm pretty sure you would not consider it an option, but I have to make it clear that I'm not excluding it.) I will help in any way I can with any changes that might need to be made to keep things functioning happily, but I need to be sure that we are heading towards a situation that is mutually agreeable -- if you don't want to do it anymore if I'm only going to be physically there occasionally, I need to know that.

I was going to try to say something about my commitment to being there mentally, for the business, in the sense of having my head in a space where my attention is focussed on it, but I think I need to think about it some more. I've been able to keep on top of customer service, but I haven't been able to do a lot else what with the demands on my time from Juliet's work and other priorities.

I have to decide how I'm going to approach the upcoming busy season; I was hoping to be done with certain things by now (mainly the Big Balancing Act), but I'm not -- and figuring out how to deal with that is much more on my mind right now, since there seems to be a great deal of pressure to get that straightened out.

You and I can't negotiate for anything having to do with money when there is the looming possibility that one of us (or our businesses) owes the other('s business) (or "the difference between what RH owes to RDA and what it owes to me is", or however you want to look at it) a pile of money. How can we possibly split the anticipated profits from Xmas until this is resolved, much less renegotiate the split?

So part of me says "finish the balancing first", but I need to be sure that gets done in time to be ready for the Xmas rush -- or that I get Xmas rush things done at the same time, which means splitting my attention, which is generally not a good idea. Another part of me says "screw the balancing thing, let's get ready for the Xmas rush... and maybe that will get done with enough time to finish the balancing act before things get seriously busy".

Either way, it's a matter of deciding which one is more important (in case it doesn't get finished in time to do the other) -- Xmas rush prep, or getting our finances in order. So I have to think about it.


Ok, those are the issues that seemed most important to write about right now. If others occur to me, I'll send a separate email; otherwise I could be waiting forever for The Entire Big Picture to become clear to me, and it would probably change significantly by then anyway. And we need to start getting this stuff worked out so we can move forward.



12:29 from Livia to all


This definitively answers the legal questions Lynne raised (and in fact contradicts Lynne's claims on the matter) on 2002-08-31. Livia's position agrees (now and also at the time) with my own position on the matter, i.e. that the Grievers were my guests and never had any kind of status as tenants outside of any arrangements they might have had with me. (And just to make that point clear: they never had any formal tenancy arrangements with me either, much to my expense and inconvenience.)


Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 12:29:04 -0500
From: (Livia)
Message-Id: <1031243344.smmsdV1.1.2spam@spammail.arches.ugaspam.spamedu>
To: nick-2020-12-4-04:20-spam@redhousespam.com
Cc: lynne-2020-12-4-04:20-spam@redhousespam.com
Subject: Legal Rights

Okay -- According to the Landlord/Tenant hotline -- the fact Lynne has a business licence and use of the property for more than three years does not override or supercede the agreements between the landlord and the tenant -- and since Nick has always been the tenant -- any complaint that Lynne may have that she was not served proper eviction notice is a complaint she needs to pursue with Nick.

Her tenancy ends with Nick's.

My right at this point is to give Lynne two to three days notice and file a warrant to dispossess with the Magistrate court. Since three days from now is Sunday Aug. 8, the point is completely moot. After all, Lynne will have the interior cleaned out BY Sept. 9.

However, Lynne's unhappiness with me is misdirected. Her agreements and disagreements need to be resolved with Nick. Meanwhile, Nick potentially responsible for the time it takes for Lynne to clear her things out. It would depend on how the Magistrate Court Judge would rule. But any arrangements made between the landlord and the tenant, Nick would be between them and would not be between the landlord and Lynne.

'Nuff said.

Livia S. Wade