2002-02-10 SvsG Emails
Staddon vs. Griever: SvsG Messages: 2002
Editorial Notes
I have applied some formatting for the sake of readability. Bubba's described behavior as FJ was pulling out of the Red House driveway in his car is eerily similar to Bubba's behavior when I was pulling out of his driveway with the moving van a year and a half later --Woozle 20:51, 16 September 2006 (EDT)
Nick emails FJ
- From: N. Staddon
- To: FJ
- Cc: lynne@redhouse.com
- Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2002 4:37 PM
- Subject: Re: [...] hut at redhouse.
That's fine, I hate phones anyway... I think Bubba overreacted just a bit; he and Lynne seem to be under the impression that you donated the hut to the RDA as part of the ShantiFest deal where [your organization] received $300 and the space to publicize their work at the 'Fest. It may be that what they thought had been agreed was not in fact what you had agreed to, but I haven't yet had a chance to get together with Lynne to get the full story of who said what and when as she remembers it.
I will get back to you when I have had a chance to do this, and we can figure out what the points of disagreement are at that time; until then, I don't have all the information I need in order to say anything definitive one way or the other.
Thanks,
Nick
response from FJ
Nick- what went on out at your place was considerably more than just an 'overreaction on Bubba's part', and it is not the first time he has acted this way towards me. Going back over the years i can think of a total of 5 incidents where bubba or people associated with him have subjected me to similar things. One of these incidents involved jody griever being hauled away by the police at a Human rights festival, I believe in 1997, alrthough i'd have to check my records on the year.
I have no particular reason to come out your place in the near future, but if i do, i'll most certainly make sure I'll be meeting you when i get there, and i won't come alone. If Bubba wants to repeat this kind of balony in front of witnesses, there will be a police complaint and i expect he will get to explain his behavior in front of a judge, as I will press charges.
I also believe you are responsible for what's going on on your land.
I think you will agree that nobody in their right mind tries to settle a dispute with somebody engagining in loud, irrational, abusive, and threatening behavior. Especially when they are alone and there are no witnesses or help to stop the violence that is threatened, if it should actually occur. Bubba was, to my mind, trying to provoke a fistfight so he would have an excuse to beat on me, if he should prevail, although he may be incorrect in his estimate of what would happen.
Nobody in their right mind does business of any kind, makes agreements, etc. under such circumstances.
I believe you and i are on good terms. You had given me permission to remove the stored hut, which had never been given to RDA or anybody else, and which in fact my organization had to erect and rehab after RDA ignored it and let it rot in the rain. Bubba had the idea we had removed a hut belonging to him, without permission. I had to inform him we did have permission from you.
I gather that what rules you have concerning the land behind redhouse are fairly casual. There are a number of times I've been in contact with people living in the Shanti fest hut, Teepee Frank, etc. and on asking, found you weren't even aware anybody was staying there. The land is not posted.
I had forgotten the stovepipe for the hut we removed. Given the difficulty of making phone contact with you, and that an e-mail and reply might take two days, i drove out to redhouse to retrieve the stovepipe. There were a number of cars at redhouse, but rather than make somebody come to the door to give me permission i thougfht was unnecessary anyway, I parked my car with the others so it would be obvious i wasn't doing anything surreptitious, walked back through the privet and picked up the stovepipe. At this point Bubba accosted me and wanted to know what i was doing in their place. I told him it was Nick Straddon's place, not theirs. He accused me of removing their hut without permission. I informed him i did indeed have permission.
From his uncontrolled and angry demeanor I decided it was time to get near the redhouse where there would be witnesses and we would be in sight of passerby on the road. He shrieked that the Shanti hut was HIS. (Not RDA's hut, but HIS.) [FJ's organization] is prohibited from turning over a hut to another organization for the personal use of family members. You are responsible for what is on your land, so i suggested he talk to you about it.
Lynne had, the week before, met us in a great state of upset as we were removing the stored hut, and made the claim that 'a couple' took refuge in the shanti hut on occassion, and i told her at that time, if the hut was being used, we wouldn't remove it. This was different from what you told me, which was that the hut wasn't being used.
I put the stovepipe over my shoulder and walked out the road through the privet. Bubba accused me of threatening him with the stovepipe. He demanded i respect him and discuss various matters with him, in a loud and threatening manner, blocking my way and getting close to me to yell at me.
I will not discuss anything with a person acting in such an intimidating manner, and of course, respect is out of the question. This kind of babyshit is contemptible. He made loud and intimidating demands that I call you before coming out (Although it is nearly impossible to contact you that way.) I agreed to this, as I have no further reason to go on the property at this time, and i most certainly want you or your wife present if i should come out again. He made representations that he was carrying out your interests in defending your property against intrusion. I told him to get you, as i wanted to discuss this with you. (What I wanted to discuss with you was Bubba's behavior.) After I repeated this 3 or 4 times he backed off and dropped that issue. He continued to hover about my car, and close to my person, yelling in an intimidating manner as i got in, started the engine, and backed out. At one point he slapped the front of my car. This is insane and criminal behavior and is in violation of several laws.
You are responsible for who is on your property and what they do. I think you can understand why it is well there be no relations between [FJ's organization] and RDA. However, the legal existance of RDA is so tenuous, it is hardly possible to have relations with them as an organization anyway. Who actually 'owns' [one of our huts] has never been legally clear. However, I think whoever owns the land they're on has the legal say as to whether the hut remains or whether anybody occupies it.
At the time of the shanti Fest in question, in either '95 or '96, I attempted to get as much of my agreements with the grievers on paper as i could, but they were surprisingly adverse to making a paper trail. Whatever agreement there is concerning the Shanti hut I believe was verbal only, and of course it is only my word against theirs. It was my understanding the shanti fest was a benefit for [FJ's organization] and we did not get a lot of money out of it. I may have the reciept somewhere, because I made a point of having two reciepts, which both myself and Lynne signed, because the accounting for the fest left a lot to be desired and i wanted myself covered. but I don't remember it as being $300. That was in TP village days and we left the hut for the use of RDA and others who might be out there. I don't believe we specifically gave it to RDA. the majority of the money, i believe, went to putting a furnace in Redhouse so the Grievers could live in it the following winter, and we got what was left over. There perhaps was an agreement between them and mrs. Burgess, your wife's mother, at that time.
I suggest you sit down with lynne and Bubba, and perhaps a lawyer, and clarify what their rights are on your property. I feel they've presumed a lot more than what those rights actually are.
I also suggest you monitor what the 'Shanti' hut is being used for, as it is your responsibility. i was left wondering whether bubba was actually crazy or whether the craziness was a feigned intimidation display to keep people from poking too much into what goes on on your property.