2003-07-14 SvsG Emails

2003 Messages 2002 2003 Overview 2003-01-12 2003-01-27 2003-01-29 2003-02-13 2003-03-02 2003-04-05 2003-04-06 2003-04-21 2003-04-28 2003-05-02 2003-05-05 2003-05-23 2003-06-03 2003-06-04 2003-06-23 2003-06-27 2003-06-28 2003-06-29 2003-07-01 2003-07-13 2003-07-14 2003-07-15 2003-07-24 2003-07-30 2003-08-01 2003-08-02 2003-08-03 2003-08-04 2003-08-25 2003-08-29 2003-08-31 2003-09-01 2003-09-20 2003-09-24 2003-09-25 2003-10-16 2003-10-30 2003-11-01 2003-11-03 2003-11-04 2003-11-05 2003-11-25 2003-11-28 2003-12-09 2004

Staddon vs. Griever: SvsG Messages: 2003

09:15 Nick to Lynne

Date:	Mon, 14 Jul 2003 09:15:16 -0400
From:	"N. Staddon" <nspam@spamredhousespam.spamcom>
To:	"Lynne G." <lynnespam@spamredhousespam.spamcom>
CC:	bubba-2024-11-22-00:13-spam@redhousespam.com
Subject:	Re: schedule FYI

---

Lynne,

I believe I see the logic of what you're saying given the premises you are starting from (or seem to be starting from). My view of the premises differs from yours, however.

1. I have not dictated anything; terms are what we can work out in mediation. You are free to carry on with whatever business you wish however you wish. I have merely said "I don't want to work with you anymore". Would you deny me the right to stop working under circumstances I found intolerable? Mediation is one way (the only way I can see) to possibly resume working together or at least settle our remaining entanglements in a mutually satisfactory way.

2. The betrayal of trust goes both ways, as I believe I tried to explain many times before giving up. Again, this is why I see mediation as the only option.

3. You have never asked me to return the inventory I am "storing". Having now brought up this point it seems likely you will ask me to return it, so I will reply to that hypothetical request: I paid for every bit of vbz inventory currently in either of our possessions (even though it wasn't supposed to be that way), and I have not asked you to give me the rest of it (even though it would go a long way towards cancelling out RDA's debt). Is that not doing my best to meet you halfway?

4. Yes, I paid for the storage space, and I expect to have access to it. I paid for it in cash even though I felt that the expense should have come out of RDA's debt because I wanted to keep it separate from any business disagreements we were having (which had already become an issue at the time we made the arrangement). This was discussed explicitly at the time we made the agreement. I expect you to honor the other half of that agreement.

I will try to come early in the morning on Tuesday and I won't knock at the door. That way you won't have to see me if you don't want to. We'll be in the blue minivan.

5. I was planning to make several trips to empty the trailer (planning to get a trailer hitch so I could attach a U-Haul trailer -- much cheaper than renting a truck -- we've been running around so much there hasn't been time to have the trailer hitch installed yet). To do it in a single trip requires more time (and money) than I can set aside easily at the moment. I will keep an eye towards minimizing visits -- but I don't see how it could be done in one trip, given everything that's in the trailer and elsewhere (piano, Benz).

If you can no longer provide storage, along with access when I need it, I suggest you send me an eviction notice -- email is fine -- something like this: "Formal Notice Of Eviction -- we will be discontinuing storage services at Hull Road in the location currently designated Trailer 3, effective immediately; the occupant has 60 days from today, July X, 2003, to remove all items from the storage location. Any items still in storage after September X, 2003, will be donated, sold, recycled, or otherwise removed from the storage location at our discretion." I believe the rental laws say I'm still liable for rent during that time period.

And while we're on this subject: is the Benz in a location where a tow truck could retrieve it? If not, it would be helpful if you could arrange things so it was. I'm hoping I will have time to deal with it when we bring Anna back in 2 weeks. If you'd rather, you can have it towed and I will pay you for the tow. (Let me know if you'd prefer that and I'll let you know where I want it towed.)

Any other issues in your email are probably best dealt with in mediation.

Thanks,

Nick

Nick Notes

Re "cancelling out RDA's debt": at the time I wrote this, I was still crediting the much-discussed "RDA share of sales" in my accounting of their debt. That share already had the cost of merchandise deducted from it. If they had given me the merchandise at that time, I would have credited it (or at least some reasonable percentage of it) to their account, which would in turn have reduced the amount they owed me.

Subsequent events showed that they were not interested in working out an equitable arrangement, and at some point I realized that I really had no obligation to credit them with a share of sales (for reasons that seem blindingly obvious in retrospect -- starting with "what did they do to earn it?" and the fact that it was never more than a temporary working arrangement).

There is more discussion of this elsewhere, and I stated to Lynne in my email of 11/1 that I'm no longer crediting them with a sales share.

11:04 Lynne to Nick

Notes

Lynne apparently has the wrong date for the email she quotes as being on 6/23; the first quote shown after the "6-23-03" label is actually from 6/28 11:01. The rest of them are from 7/14 09:15 (above).

Text

Date:	Mon, 14 Jul 2003 11:04:14 -0400
From:	"Lynne G." <lynnespam@spamredhousespam.spamcom>
To:	"N. Staddon" <nspam@spamredhousespam.spamcom>, bubba-2024-11-22-00:13-spam@redhousespam.com, lynne-2024-11-22-00:13-spam@redhousespam.com
Subject:	Re: schedule FYI

---

N. Staddon wrote:

Lynne, I believe I see the logic of what you're saying given the premises you are starting from (or seem to be starting from). My view of the premises differs from yours, however.

Agreeing to disagree is something we do in many areas...

1. I have not dictated anything; terms are what we can work out in mediation.

We disagree...We believe that you have taken the liberty of setting terms outside of mediation based on your perception of how things are... I don't, however, see any sense in arguing about it at this time. Just wanted to be clear that we disagree on that.

You are free to carry on with whatever business you wish however you wish. I have merely said "I don't want to work with you anymore". Would you deny me the right to stop working under circumstances I found intolerable?

There is no "denying you " anything at this point, Nick... You have taken Bubba's half of the store and notice of orders, etc. until such time as you see fit to do otherwise... AND you don't want to talk about it.... As you said on 6-23-03 :

Nick wrote:

I think you fail to grasp the situation. These are my terms, take them or leave them: mediation or nothing.

Mediation is one way (the only way I can see) to possibly resume working together or at least settle our remaining entanglements in a mutually satisfactory way.

So be it.

2. The betrayal of trust goes both ways, as I believe I tried to explain many times before giving up. Again, this is why I see mediation as the only option.

Mediation will undoubtedly make many things clearer.

3. You have never asked me to return the inventory I am "storing". Having now brought up this point it seems likely you will ask me to return it, so I will reply to that hypothetical request: I paid for every bit of vbz inventory currently in either of our possessions (even though it wasn't supposed to be that way), and I have not asked you to give me the rest of it (even though it would go a long way towards cancelling out RDA's debt). Is that not doing my best to meet you halfway?

It's important, only for the sake of discussion, that we be clear that we do not believe that RDA owes you any money. Also, that Bubba asked repeatedly to be able pay for the orders... you said you wouldn't recommend it and that it was fine the way it was because we were making money... We just saw it as another way for you to maintain control, but didn't argue about it. As far as our asking for you to return the merchandise... we never bothered asking because we knew you'd just make up a reason not to... The point is mute, for now. As you say... mediation is the only place this will be worked out. We felt differently before June 23rd... though it's pretty clear at this point.

4. Yes, I paid for the storage space, and I expect to have access to it. I paid for it in cash even though I felt that the expense should have come out of RDA's debt because I wanted to keep it separate from any business disagreements we were having (which had already become an issue at the time we made the arrangement). This was discussed explicitly at the time we made the agreement. I expect you to honor the other half of that agreement. I will try to come early in the morning on Tuesday and I won't knock at the door. That way you won't have to see me if you don't want to. We'll be in the blue minivan.

Thanks.

And also,

We would appreciate it if Sandy and the kids do the bathroom thing before the trip here, so that they can remain in the van. We cannot and will not be responsible for injurys or complications due to the extremely muddy situation in the area of the trailors and Josh's obsession with the street coupled with lack of supervision in that respect. I've been a wreck about this at each visit. Again, I'm not trying to be difficult.... just reasonably cautious.

5. I was planning to make several trips to empty the trailer (planning to get a trailer hitch so I could attach a U-Haul trailer -- much cheaper than renting a truck -- we've been running around so much there hasn't been time to have the trailer hitch installed yet). To do it in a single trip requires more time (and money) than I can set aside easily at the moment. I will keep an eye towards minimizing visits -- but I don't see how it could be done in one trip, given everything that's in the trailer and elsewhere (piano, Benz).

Bubba and I will need to discuss how we feel about dragging it out over an extended period of time.... It would, however, make it easier for us to make clear decisions if we had a timeframe on all of this. Would these trips be just through August? or in coming months, as well?

If you can no longer provide storage, along with access when I need it, I suggest you send me an eviction notice -- email is fine -- something like this: "Formal Notice Of Eviction -- we will be discontinuing storage services at Hull Road in the location currently designated Trailer 3, effective immediately; the occupant has 60 days from today, July X, 2003, to remove all items from the storage location. Any items still in storage after September X, 2003, will be donated, sold, recycled, or otherwise removed from the storage location at our discretion." I believe the rental laws say I'm still liable for rent during that time period.

We will discuss this between ourselves and get back to you on it. We are not trying to be difficult... merely trying to avoid confrontations at this time. I'll let you know.

And while we're on this subject: is the Benz in a location where a tow truck could retrieve it? If not, it would be helpful if you could arrange things so it was. I'm hoping I will have time to deal with it when we bring Anna back in 2 weeks. If you'd rather, you can have it towed and I will pay you for the tow. (Let me know if you'd prefer that and I'll let you know where I want it towed.)

I'll check with Bubba on that....

Any other issues in your email are probably best dealt with in mediation.

As you wish....

Lynne

Nick Notes

Is it just me, or is Lynne subtly distorting my meaning in her replies? For example, quoting "those are my terms" as a response to my saying I hadn't dicated terms -- the one ("those are my terms") being in regard to my terms for further communication, and the other ("I have not dictated anything; terms are what we can work out in mediation" being in regard to terms of doing business together. It was only several months later that I figured out how I got caught in that apparent self-contradiction. (I believe this would be an example of Equivocation on Lynne's part.)

11:31 Nick to Lynne

Date:	Mon, 14 Jul 2003 11:31:31 -0400
From:	"N. Staddon" <nspam@spamredhousespam.spamcom>
To:	"Lynne G." <lynnespam@spamredhousespam.spamcom>
CC:	bubba-2024-11-22-00:13-spam@redhousespam.com
Subject:	Re: schedule FYI

---

Quick answers:

It's important, only for the sake of discussion, that we be clear that we do not believe that RDA owes you any money.

I acknowledge that you believe this. I was, at press time, still waiting for your accounting showing all the amounts you borrowed and when & how you paid them back. The burden of proof is generally on the debtor, not the loaner; desptite this, I have shown you my accounting. I'm ready for your response any time.

Also, that Bubba asked repeatedly to be able pay for the orders... you said you wouldn't recommend it and that it was fine the way it was because we were making money...

There was one time he offered to pay for an order (or maybe it was a batch of orders around Xmas? I don't remember). At the time, what I thought he was offering was a temporary loan which he would need to have returned in short order or things would get ugly financially for the RDA. Under those circumstances, I didn't think it was a good idea because I couldn't promise that the business could return it in the near future.

I was protecting the RDA financially, and perhaps that was a bad idea. If I had known that he was interested in truly investing the money for the long haul (as I have been doing), my answer would have been different.

Thanks. And also, We would appreciate it if Sandy and the kids do the bathroom thing before the trip here, so that they can remain in the van. We cannot and will not be responsible for injurys or complications due to the extremely muddy situation in the area of the trailors and Josh's obsession with the street coupled with lack of supervision in that respect. I've been a wreck about this at each visit. Again, I'm not trying to be difficult.... just reasonably cautious.

We aren't bringing the kids this time. (We generally prefer to leave the kids behind, but that hasn't really been an option most times.) Sandy will be helping me move stuff out of the trailer. We accept responsibility for any accidents that occur to either of us.

Bubba and I will need to discuss how we feel about dragging it out over an extended period of time.... It would, however, make it easier for us to make clear decisions if we had a timeframe on all of this. Would these trips be just through August? or in coming months, as well?

I will have a better idea of how long it will take once I fill up one tow-trailer. I will say that if I think it's going to take longer than the end of August to get everything out, I will seriously consider faster & more expensive options.

I should note that it isn't in my best interest (either) to let things sit there for any longer than they have to; there's the $150 a month plus the extra friction it's causing between us (not that there isn't enough already) plus not having my stuff at hand. The only reason it has gone on this long is that I haven't had time or funds to do very much about it. I do have a storage place lined up for when I actually get the stuff here, so part of the problem has been taken care of; now it's just the actual haulage.

N.

Nick Notes

I meant "which he would need to have returned to him" -- i.e. I thought Bubba would need the money back quickly if he were to loan it, and I didn't think I could promise that.

21:49 Lynne to Nick

Date:	Mon, 14 Jul 2003 21:49:27 -0400
From:	"Lynne G." <lynnespam@spamredhousespam.spamcom>
To:	"N. Staddon" <nspam@spamredhousespam.spamcom>, bubba-2024-11-22-00:13-spam@redhousespam.com
Subject:	Re: schedule FYI

---

Nick,

I had hoped that you would see the reasoning behind my request that you postpone your coming here until we had begun mediation and some of the energy has died down. I understand that your energy may not be so high since you are the one who has usurped complete control of the store and has shut Bubba out to the point where he is even denied notification of orders...

Given that you have paid for storage this month, I will grant you reasonable access. Reasonable includes working out a time that works for us. You may come tomorrow after 9 AM. Please email me back to let me know when you are planning to come.

Lynne

Nick Notes

Email was apparently sent after I had shut down the laptop for the trip to Athens. We drove down Monday, stopped by Hull Road first thing Tuesday, and then headed back.