Difference between revisions of "2003-08-03 SvsG Emails"
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{{SvsG Email|2003}} =09:20 from Nick= {{email header start}} {{hdrline|Date|Sun, 03 Aug 2003 09:20:15 -0400}} {{hdrline|From|}} | {{SvsG Email|2003}} | ||
=09:20 from Nick= | |||
{{email header start}} | |||
{{hdrline|Date|Sun, 03 Aug 2003 09:20:15 -0400}} | |||
{{hdrline|From|}}"{{email|Sysop|redhouse|com}}" <{{email|sysop|redhouse|com}}> | |||
{{hdrline|To|}}{{email|b|vbz|net}} | |||
{{hdrline|CC|}}{{email|lynne|redhouse|com}} | |||
{{hdrline|Subject|Testing forward}} | |||
{{email header stop}} | |||
Lynne claims that this email address is causing problems. I restored the forwarding when you requested it (weeks ago) and have not touched it since. I just now checked the control panel and verified that it is still in place. If people are having trouble sending email to this address, it is either a technical problem of which I was unaware or else it is a problem at their end. | |||
Thank you, | |||
sysop | |||
=11:01 from Nick= | |||
==Nick Notes== | |||
This was in response to [[2003-08-02 SvsG Emails|8/2 22:15 from Lynne]]. | |||
==Text== | |||
{{email header start}} | |||
{{hdrline|Date|Sun, 03 Aug 2003 11:01:48 -0400}} | |||
{{hdrline|From|}}{{hdremail|N. Staddon|n|redhouse|com}} | |||
{{hdrline|To|lynne}} <{{email|lynne|redhouse|com}}> | |||
{{hdrline|Subject|Re: phone changes}} | |||
{{email header stop}} | |||
I thought I had been clear about this, but I'll say it again in case I only said it to Bubba and not to you. I will say this to you ONCE; any further discussion should be in mediation, because I don't want to be dragged into any more endless circular conversations. | |||
I am dissolving the partnership. I made every attempt, prior to making this decision, to find out what Bubba would want from the partnership if I were to dissolve it; he steadfastly refused to quantify his interest in the business beyond "you promised me half", which is not true*. Let me know if you don't understand why I can't simply give him "half of everything" even if I were to grant that he was entitled to it (which I don't). | |||
(*Very early on, we discussed the idea of a "50-50 partnership"; any partnership requires certain things from both parties, and in my view he has definitely not held up his end of what I would have expected. In any case it would be moot because all my attempts to define the terms of any potential partnership were shot down. You can't have a business relationship without the terms being understood and agreed to in writing by both parties.) | |||
When we mediate (and I do hope you are still working out when would be a good time-window for this), it will be for two purposes: 1. To decide if anything that either of us has retained belongs rightly to the other (aside from things to which one or the other of us might have clear legal title), and 2. In the event that Bubba decides he still wants to work with me -- and given the intense feeling of betrayal you cited earlier, I can't see why he would -- we would need to work out what the rules would be, so there would be no misunderstandings this time. | |||
In the meantime, I am doing my best to disentangle the remaining threads. Bubba is officially on leave of absence from vbz.net, and has no need to be receiving order notifications or in any way involving himself with vbz.net business. He is supposed to be informing anyone who knows him as b@vbz.net that he has a new email address (his choice, from among the various domains he owns). He is not to identify himself as affiliated with (or a partner in, or an employee of) Red House or vbz.net. | |||
I reluctantly agreed to continue forwarding {{email|b|vbz|net}} mail; I have not in any way interfered with your redhouse.com email accounts nor any of the several domains you have hosted (unpaid!) on Red House Media's dedicated server. I am doing these things as a gesture of goodwill, not because I have to. | |||
I am indeed saying "well, since you won't tell me what parts you think you own, I'm reclaiming what I think I own". If you disagree with my choices, then all the more reason for us to go into mediation. | |||
I tried very hard, in good faith, for many months, to work out something with Bubba; whether it was deliberate or not on his part, I found him impossible to talk to when it mattered. He continually changed the subject, seemed to forget my point-of-view on issues we had discussed only minutes before, refused to make any kind of compromise with me on any issues, and attempted to control areas which I _never_ agreed were his to control. In effect, he dared me to show my strength ("you're not in control here" is almost verbatim what he said) -- since he apparently wouldn't take anything else seriously. | |||
The only reason it hadn't come to a head before this was that I always eventually caved in to him, because I don't like having people upset at me. I finally got tired of caving in; it finally got to the point where the mental abuse was worse than knowing you would both be furious at me (despite all my attempts to reach an agreement <u>prior</u> to putting my foot down). | |||
Look at this from my point-of-view for a second, if you can. Let's further assume that I'm not making up the accounting I gave you which shows that RDA owes me a large sum even after RDA's sales share is deducted. (If I were making it up, of course, it would be very easy for you to shoot large holes through it by detailing where you paid back amounts not shown on my accounting. This hasn't happened. This should at least help you understand why <u>I</u> believe the accounting to be reasonably accurate, even if you honestly don't.) | |||
But anyway, from my POV: | |||
1. I've sunk a huge amount into this enterprise; RDA has sunk diddly. (And of course you're free to contradict me by sending me a list of RDA's contribution amounts.) | |||
2. I'm the one who knows how to make everything work. Bubba knows how to process images and make phone calls. (Ask me how much trouble I've had keeping the business going without Bubba's "help". Go on, ask me.) | |||
3. Bubba had ideas. I did the work. (And who's to say I wouldn't have had those same ideas in the natural course of events, without Bubba's participation?) Ideas are a dime a dozen; ask me how I know. I've got at least a few dollars' worth of unimplemented ideas lying around. The work is what counts. | |||
4a. Before Bubba, I had: a corporation, a location for doing business with a comfortable office with air-conditioning and a nice view, a credit-card processing account, a business bank account, a web site, 2 or 3 computers for my exclusive use, a studio control room, a business selling independent music CDs, a working Benz, a working Datsun, a baby grand piano. | |||
4b. With Bubba (at the end), we had: a corporation, a smaller location for doing business with a less comfortable office and no A/C (after my original office's view was blocked by a bus for a couple of years), a credit-card processing account, a business bank account, an improved web site, 2 or 3 computers (2 of which were being used by other people), no recording space, a business selling t-shirts, a non-working Benz not in my possession, no Datsun, and many many more thousands sunk into the business. | |||
(I could add, though you'd probably say these were all my own fault for daring to move out of Athens: two people accusing me of all kinds of wrongdoing while owing me thousands of dollars, a baby grand piano in a house where I'm no longer welcome, and vast quantities of my stuff in storage in a trailer where I have to make an appointment when I want to pick any of it up.) | |||
All this (1-4b) is why I can't work with Bubba any more. It's also why I had to restrain myself from saying you had a lot of nerve to be accusing _me_ of betrayal. (I hope you won't make that accusation again, because it would clearly indicate to me that you haven't heard a thing I've said.) I held back because at this point I still cling tenaciously to the belief that you really don't understand what you did wrong, in fact you don't understand that you _did_ do anything wrong, because you really don't know what you're doing when it comes to business. I'd much rather believe that than believe you were deliberately abusing my trust all this time. | |||
Nick | |||
=12:16 Nick to Lynne= | |||
{{email header start}} | |||
{{hdrline|Date|Sun, 03 Aug 2003 12:16:36 -0400}} | |||
{{hdrline|From|}}{{hdremail|N. Staddon|n|redhouse|com}} | |||
{{hdrline|To|}}{{email|lynne|redhouse|com}} | |||
{{hdrline|Subject|spreadsheet for 8/3}} | |||
{{email header stop}} | |||
Here is the latest spreadsheet. | |||
N. | |||
==Attached== | |||
*[http://www.hypertwins.org/strife/vbz/files/rda-20030803.zip Spreadsheet for 8/3] (zipped Excel 97, 36 kb) | |||
Latest revision as of 21:46, 14 April 2006
Staddon vs. Griever: SvsG Messages: 2003
09:20 from Nick
| Date: | Sun, 03 Aug 2003 09:20:15 -0400 |
| From: | "Sysop@redhouse.com" <sysop@redhouse.com> |
| To: | b@vbz.net |
| CC: | lynne@redhouse.com |
| Subject: | Testing forward |
Lynne claims that this email address is causing problems. I restored the forwarding when you requested it (weeks ago) and have not touched it since. I just now checked the control panel and verified that it is still in place. If people are having trouble sending email to this address, it is either a technical problem of which I was unaware or else it is a problem at their end.
Thank you,
sysop
11:01 from Nick
Nick Notes
This was in response to 8/2 22:15 from Lynne.
Text
| Date: | Sun, 03 Aug 2003 11:01:48 -0400 |
| From: | "N. Staddon" <n@redhouse.com> |
| To: | lynne <lynne@redhouse.com> |
| Subject: | Re: phone changes |
I thought I had been clear about this, but I'll say it again in case I only said it to Bubba and not to you. I will say this to you ONCE; any further discussion should be in mediation, because I don't want to be dragged into any more endless circular conversations.
I am dissolving the partnership. I made every attempt, prior to making this decision, to find out what Bubba would want from the partnership if I were to dissolve it; he steadfastly refused to quantify his interest in the business beyond "you promised me half", which is not true*. Let me know if you don't understand why I can't simply give him "half of everything" even if I were to grant that he was entitled to it (which I don't).
(*Very early on, we discussed the idea of a "50-50 partnership"; any partnership requires certain things from both parties, and in my view he has definitely not held up his end of what I would have expected. In any case it would be moot because all my attempts to define the terms of any potential partnership were shot down. You can't have a business relationship without the terms being understood and agreed to in writing by both parties.)
When we mediate (and I do hope you are still working out when would be a good time-window for this), it will be for two purposes: 1. To decide if anything that either of us has retained belongs rightly to the other (aside from things to which one or the other of us might have clear legal title), and 2. In the event that Bubba decides he still wants to work with me -- and given the intense feeling of betrayal you cited earlier, I can't see why he would -- we would need to work out what the rules would be, so there would be no misunderstandings this time.
In the meantime, I am doing my best to disentangle the remaining threads. Bubba is officially on leave of absence from vbz.net, and has no need to be receiving order notifications or in any way involving himself with vbz.net business. He is supposed to be informing anyone who knows him as b@vbz.net that he has a new email address (his choice, from among the various domains he owns). He is not to identify himself as affiliated with (or a partner in, or an employee of) Red House or vbz.net.
I reluctantly agreed to continue forwarding b@vbz.net mail; I have not in any way interfered with your redhouse.com email accounts nor any of the several domains you have hosted (unpaid!) on Red House Media's dedicated server. I am doing these things as a gesture of goodwill, not because I have to.
I am indeed saying "well, since you won't tell me what parts you think you own, I'm reclaiming what I think I own". If you disagree with my choices, then all the more reason for us to go into mediation.
I tried very hard, in good faith, for many months, to work out something with Bubba; whether it was deliberate or not on his part, I found him impossible to talk to when it mattered. He continually changed the subject, seemed to forget my point-of-view on issues we had discussed only minutes before, refused to make any kind of compromise with me on any issues, and attempted to control areas which I _never_ agreed were his to control. In effect, he dared me to show my strength ("you're not in control here" is almost verbatim what he said) -- since he apparently wouldn't take anything else seriously.
The only reason it hadn't come to a head before this was that I always eventually caved in to him, because I don't like having people upset at me. I finally got tired of caving in; it finally got to the point where the mental abuse was worse than knowing you would both be furious at me (despite all my attempts to reach an agreement prior to putting my foot down).
Look at this from my point-of-view for a second, if you can. Let's further assume that I'm not making up the accounting I gave you which shows that RDA owes me a large sum even after RDA's sales share is deducted. (If I were making it up, of course, it would be very easy for you to shoot large holes through it by detailing where you paid back amounts not shown on my accounting. This hasn't happened. This should at least help you understand why I believe the accounting to be reasonably accurate, even if you honestly don't.)
But anyway, from my POV:
1. I've sunk a huge amount into this enterprise; RDA has sunk diddly. (And of course you're free to contradict me by sending me a list of RDA's contribution amounts.)
2. I'm the one who knows how to make everything work. Bubba knows how to process images and make phone calls. (Ask me how much trouble I've had keeping the business going without Bubba's "help". Go on, ask me.)
3. Bubba had ideas. I did the work. (And who's to say I wouldn't have had those same ideas in the natural course of events, without Bubba's participation?) Ideas are a dime a dozen; ask me how I know. I've got at least a few dollars' worth of unimplemented ideas lying around. The work is what counts.
4a. Before Bubba, I had: a corporation, a location for doing business with a comfortable office with air-conditioning and a nice view, a credit-card processing account, a business bank account, a web site, 2 or 3 computers for my exclusive use, a studio control room, a business selling independent music CDs, a working Benz, a working Datsun, a baby grand piano.
4b. With Bubba (at the end), we had: a corporation, a smaller location for doing business with a less comfortable office and no A/C (after my original office's view was blocked by a bus for a couple of years), a credit-card processing account, a business bank account, an improved web site, 2 or 3 computers (2 of which were being used by other people), no recording space, a business selling t-shirts, a non-working Benz not in my possession, no Datsun, and many many more thousands sunk into the business.
(I could add, though you'd probably say these were all my own fault for daring to move out of Athens: two people accusing me of all kinds of wrongdoing while owing me thousands of dollars, a baby grand piano in a house where I'm no longer welcome, and vast quantities of my stuff in storage in a trailer where I have to make an appointment when I want to pick any of it up.)
All this (1-4b) is why I can't work with Bubba any more. It's also why I had to restrain myself from saying you had a lot of nerve to be accusing _me_ of betrayal. (I hope you won't make that accusation again, because it would clearly indicate to me that you haven't heard a thing I've said.) I held back because at this point I still cling tenaciously to the belief that you really don't understand what you did wrong, in fact you don't understand that you _did_ do anything wrong, because you really don't know what you're doing when it comes to business. I'd much rather believe that than believe you were deliberately abusing my trust all this time.
Nick
12:16 Nick to Lynne
| Date: | Sun, 03 Aug 2003 12:16:36 -0400 |
| From: | "N. Staddon" <n@redhouse.com> |
| To: | lynne@redhouse.com |
| Subject: | spreadsheet for 8/3 |
Here is the latest spreadsheet.
N.
Attached
- Spreadsheet for 8/3 (zipped Excel 97, 36 kb)