https://hypertwins.org/mw/index.php?title=User:Woozle/blog/2011-01-15_1138_Obamacare_myth_the_fourth&feed=atom&action=historyUser:Woozle/blog/2011-01-15 1138 Obamacare myth the fourth - Revision history2024-03-29T12:46:19ZRevision history for this page on the wikiMediaWiki 1.36.0https://hypertwins.org/mw/index.php?title=User:Woozle/blog/2011-01-15_1138_Obamacare_myth_the_fourth&diff=22279&oldid=prevWoozle: Replaced content with "{{page/blog/post}}"2022-09-20T18:18:20Z<p>Replaced content with "{{page/blog/post}}"</p>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"><hide></del></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>{{<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">page</ins>/<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">blog</ins>/<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">post</ins>}}</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"><let name=data index=Title>Obamacare myth #4: Repealing it will save money and help the deficit</let></del></div></td><td colspan="2"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"><let name=data index=User>Woozle</let></del></div></td><td colspan="2"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"><let name=data index=TopicsUser></let></del></div></td><td colspan="2"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"><let name=data index=TopicsGlobal>\Obamacare\propaganda\Obamacare myths\government\math</let></del></div></td><td colspan="2"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"><let name=data index=TextAbove>This is the mirror of [[User:Woozle/blog/2011-01-13 1110 Obamacare myth the first|Myth #1]], but it's worth examining in its own right because Republicans are seriously arguing that this is necessary to help reverse the deficit -- and '''people are believing them'''.</let></del></div></td><td colspan="2"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"><let name=data index=TextBelow>Repealing Obamacare will ''cost'' in excess of $200 billion.</del></div></td><td colspan="2"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td><td colspan="2"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">This bit of information is brought to us by The Congressional Budget Office (CBO). We talked about them [[User:Woozle/blog/2011-01-13 1110 Obamacare myth the first|earlier]] because of their estimate that Obamacare would reduce the deficit by $143 billion over the first decade and by $1.2 trillion in the second decade.</del></div></td><td colspan="2"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td><td colspan="2"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">I should probably have mentioned that the CBO is a non-partisan agency; Republicans often cite and use their figures</del>{{<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">footnote|1}}.</del></div></td><td colspan="2"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td><td colspan="2"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">The $220b figure is based on expected losses of $770b, offset by savings of $540b.</del></div></td><td colspan="2"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td><td colspan="2"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">The best reason to mention this fact is [http:</del>//<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">www.nationalreview.com/corner/256615/about-cbo-score-obamacare-repeal-daniel-foster this lovely bit of Republican spin] ([http://acandidworld.com/2011/01/07/well-that-didnt-take-long-nro-spins-gops-deficit-increase-plan/ h/t]) on those numbers:</del></div></td><td colspan="2"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"><blockquote>...the CBO is saying repealing Obamacare would shrink the size of government by $770 billion over a ten-year period.</blockquote></del></div></td><td colspan="2"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td><td colspan="2"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">This is fascinating for two reasons.</del></div></td><td colspan="2"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td><td colspan="2"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">'''Minor point''': it seems they accept the accuracy of the CBO's numbers -- at least as far as the $770b losses. Their interpretation of those numbers is another matter.</del></div></td><td colspan="2"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td><td colspan="2"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">'''Major point''': They are taking a $770b ''increase in the deficit'', labeling it as a ''reduction in the size of government'', and thereby ''declaring that to be a good thing''.{{footnote|2</del>}}</div></td><td colspan="2"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td><td colspan="2"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">In other words, '''an increase in the deficit is hailed as a good thing'''. As one commenter observed, this is part of why liberals have a hard time believing that conservatives are serious about reducing the deficit.</del></div></td><td colspan="2"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td><td colspan="2"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Whether or not you think government should be smaller, there is a difference between (a) increasing the size of the government's obligations and (b) preventing the government from meeting its existing obligations. That $770b falls squarely into the latter category.</del></div></td><td colspan="2"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td><td colspan="2"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Conservatives often emphasize the importance of "personal responsibility", but apparently ensuring that America meets its obligations doesn't count as responsibility.</del></div></td><td colspan="2"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td><td colspan="2"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Most importantly, though: repealing Obamacare will deepen the deficit.</del></div></td><td colspan="2"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td><td colspan="2"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">If you don't believe the CBO's numbers, you need to explain ''why'' -- and remember that ''National Review'' apparently believes them.</del></div></td><td colspan="2"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">==Footnotes==</del></div></td><td colspan="2"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"><small></del></div></td><td colspan="2"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">{{footnote/target|1}}"House Speaker John Boehner said Thursday he believes '''the CBO, a nonpartisan group long considered by both parties to be an impartial referee on budget matters''', was manipulated by Democrats to produce a false estimate of savings in the health care reform law." &mdash; [http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/health-care-law-repeal-advanced-house-republicans/story?id=12565523 ABC News] (emphasis added)</del></div></td><td colspan="2"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">-----</del></div></td><td colspan="2"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">{{footnote/target|2}}[[File:Math error-300x229.png|150px|right]]One commenter on that thread took it even further:<blockquote>$770b in taxes we won't need to pay, and $540b we won't need to spend. We save $1.31 trillion just by repealing Obamacare.</blockquote>(She even called this thinking "Democratic math", but didn't give any justification for this.) The fact that nobody pointed out the flaw in this logic makes me wonder if they possibly actually think that ''any flow of money to or from the government'' somehow increases the deficit... presumably because it means you're "spending money".</del></div></td><td colspan="2"></td></tr>
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</table>Woozlehttps://hypertwins.org/mw/index.php?title=User:Woozle/blog/2011-01-15_1138_Obamacare_myth_the_fourth&diff=16293&oldid=prevWoozle: Text replace - "flag=including" to "flag=$including"2013-01-20T03:30:15Z<p>Text replace - "flag=including" to "flag=$including"</p>
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</table>Woozlehttps://hypertwins.org/mw/index.php?title=User:Woozle/blog/2011-01-15_1138_Obamacare_myth_the_fourth&diff=15796&oldid=prevWoozle: load of lib page no longer necessary2011-09-15T21:36:34Z<p>load of lib page no longer necessary</p>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><let name=data index=TimeStamp>2011-01-15 1138</let></div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><let name=data index=TimeStamp>2011-01-15 1138</let></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div></hide><noinclude><if not flag=including><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">{{:project:code/lib/data}}</del><call ShowBlogPostPage></if></noinclude></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div></hide><noinclude><if not flag=including><call ShowBlogPostPage></if></noinclude></div></td></tr>
</table>Woozlehttps://hypertwins.org/mw/index.php?title=User:Woozle/blog/2011-01-15_1138_Obamacare_myth_the_fourth&diff=14883&oldid=prevWoozle: an illustration of bad math... but still need one for the main error2011-01-17T03:28:30Z<p>an illustration of bad math... but still need one for the main error</p>
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<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 03:28, 17 January 2011</td>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>{{footnote/target|1}}"House Speaker John Boehner said Thursday he believes '''the CBO, a nonpartisan group long considered by both parties to be an impartial referee on budget matters''', was manipulated by Democrats to produce a false estimate of savings in the health care reform law." &mdash; [http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/health-care-law-repeal-advanced-house-republicans/story?id=12565523 ABC News] (emphasis added)</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>{{footnote/target|1}}"House Speaker John Boehner said Thursday he believes '''the CBO, a nonpartisan group long considered by both parties to be an impartial referee on budget matters''', was manipulated by Democrats to produce a false estimate of savings in the health care reform law." &mdash; [http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/health-care-law-repeal-advanced-house-republicans/story?id=12565523 ABC News] (emphasis added)</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>-----</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>-----</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>{{footnote/target|2}}One commenter on that thread took it even further:<blockquote>$770b in taxes we won't need to pay, and $540b we won't need to spend. We save $1.31 trillion just by repealing Obamacare.</blockquote>(She even called this thinking "Democratic math", but didn't give any justification for this.) The fact that nobody pointed out the flaw in this logic makes me wonder if they possibly actually think that ''any flow of money to or from the government'' somehow increases the deficit... presumably because it means you're "spending money".</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>{{footnote/target|2}}<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">[[File:Math error-300x229.png|150px|right]]</ins>One commenter on that thread took it even further:<blockquote>$770b in taxes we won't need to pay, and $540b we won't need to spend. We save $1.31 trillion just by repealing Obamacare.</blockquote>(She even called this thinking "Democratic math", but didn't give any justification for this.) The fact that nobody pointed out the flaw in this logic makes me wonder if they possibly actually think that ''any flow of money to or from the government'' somehow increases the deficit... presumably because it means you're "spending money".</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Was that statement a [[issuepedia:Poe's Law|Poe]], and understood as such by all other commenters, or is that really how they think?</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Was that statement a [[issuepedia:Poe's Law|Poe]], and understood as such by all other commenters, or is that really how they think?</div></td></tr>
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</table>Woozlehttps://hypertwins.org/mw/index.php?title=User:Woozle/blog/2011-01-15_1138_Obamacare_myth_the_fourth&diff=14846&oldid=prevWoozle: a source2011-01-15T17:34:32Z<p>a source</p>
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<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 17:34, 15 January 2011</td>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><let name=data index=User>Woozle</let></div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><let name=data index=User>Woozle</let></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><let name=data index=TopicsUser></let></div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><let name=data index=TopicsUser></let></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><let name=data index=TopicsGlobal>\Obamacare\propaganda\Obamacare myths\government</let></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><let name=data index=TopicsGlobal>\Obamacare\propaganda\Obamacare myths\government<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">\math</ins></let></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><let name=data index=TextAbove>This is the mirror of [[User:Woozle/blog/2011-01-13 1110 Obamacare myth the first|Myth #1]], but it's worth examining in its own right because Republicans are seriously arguing that this is necessary to help reverse the deficit -- and '''people are believing them'''.</let></div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><let name=data index=TextAbove>This is the mirror of [[User:Woozle/blog/2011-01-13 1110 Obamacare myth the first|Myth #1]], but it's worth examining in its own right because Republicans are seriously arguing that this is necessary to help reverse the deficit -- and '''people are believing them'''.</let></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><let name=data index=TextBelow>Repealing Obamacare will ''cost'' in excess of $200 billion.</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><let name=data index=TextBelow>Repealing Obamacare will ''cost'' in excess of $200 billion.</div></td></tr>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>This bit of information is brought to us by The Congressional Budget Office (CBO). We talked about them [[User:Woozle/blog/2011-01-13 1110 Obamacare myth the first|earlier]] because of their estimate that Obamacare would reduce the deficit by $143 billion over the first decade and by $1.2 trillion in the second decade.</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>This bit of information is brought to us by The Congressional Budget Office (CBO). We talked about them [[User:Woozle/blog/2011-01-13 1110 Obamacare myth the first|earlier]] because of their estimate that Obamacare would reduce the deficit by $143 billion over the first decade and by $1.2 trillion in the second decade.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I should probably have mentioned that the CBO is a non-partisan agency; Republicans often cite and use their figures.</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I should probably have mentioned that the CBO is a non-partisan agency; Republicans often cite and use their figures<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">{{footnote|1}}</ins>.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>The $220b figure is based on expected losses of $770b, offset by savings of $540b.</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>The $220b figure is based on expected losses of $770b, offset by savings of $540b.</div></td></tr>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>'''Minor point''': it seems they accept the accuracy of the CBO's numbers -- at least as far as the $770b losses. Their interpretation of those numbers is another matter.</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>'''Minor point''': it seems they accept the accuracy of the CBO's numbers -- at least as far as the $770b losses. Their interpretation of those numbers is another matter.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>'''Major point''': They are taking a $770b ''increase in the deficit'', labeling it as a ''reduction in the size of government'', and thereby ''declaring that to be a good thing''.{{footnote|<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">1</del>}}</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>'''Major point''': They are taking a $770b ''increase in the deficit'', labeling it as a ''reduction in the size of government'', and thereby ''declaring that to be a good thing''.{{footnote|<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">2</ins>}}</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>In other words, '''an increase in the deficit is hailed as a good thing'''. As one commenter observed, this is part of why liberals have a hard time believing that conservatives are serious about reducing the deficit.</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>In other words, '''an increase in the deficit is hailed as a good thing'''. As one commenter observed, this is part of why liberals have a hard time believing that conservatives are serious about reducing the deficit.</div></td></tr>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>If you don't believe the CBO's numbers, you need to explain ''why'' -- and remember that ''National Review'' apparently believes them.</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>If you don't believe the CBO's numbers, you need to explain ''why'' -- and remember that ''National Review'' apparently believes them.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>==<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Footnote</del>==</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>==<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Footnotes</ins>==</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><small></div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><small></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>{{footnote/target|1}}One commenter on that thread took it even further:<blockquote>$770b in taxes we won't need to pay, and $540b we won't need to spend. We save $1.31 trillion just by repealing Obamacare.</blockquote>(She even called this thinking "Democratic math", but didn't give any justification for this.) The fact that nobody pointed out the flaw in this logic makes me wonder if they possibly actually think that ''any flow of money to or from the government'' somehow increases the deficit... presumably because it means you're "spending money".</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>{{footnote/target|1<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">}}"House Speaker John Boehner said Thursday he believes '''the CBO, a nonpartisan group long considered by both parties to be an impartial referee on budget matters''', was manipulated by Democrats to produce a false estimate of savings in the health care reform law." &mdash; [http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/health-care-law-repeal-advanced-house-republicans/story?id=12565523 ABC News] (emphasis added)</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">-----</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">{{footnote/target|2</ins>}}One commenter on that thread took it even further:<blockquote>$770b in taxes we won't need to pay, and $540b we won't need to spend. We save $1.31 trillion just by repealing Obamacare.</blockquote>(She even called this thinking "Democratic math", but didn't give any justification for this.) The fact that nobody pointed out the flaw in this logic makes me wonder if they possibly actually think that ''any flow of money to or from the government'' somehow increases the deficit... presumably because it means you're "spending money".</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Was that statement a [[issuepedia:Poe's Law|Poe]], and understood as such by all other commenters, or is that really how they think?</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Was that statement a [[issuepedia:Poe's Law|Poe]], and understood as such by all other commenters, or is that really how they think?</div></td></tr>
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</table>Woozlehttps://hypertwins.org/mw/index.php?title=User:Woozle/blog/2011-01-15_1138_Obamacare_myth_the_fourth&diff=14845&oldid=prevWoozle: title correction2011-01-15T16:41:24Z<p>title correction</p>
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<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 16:41, 15 January 2011</td>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><let name=data index=Title>Obamacare myth the <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">fourth</del></let></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><let name=data index=Title>Obamacare myth <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">#4: Repealing it will save money and help </ins>the <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">deficit</ins></let></div></td></tr>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><let name=data index=TopicsGlobal>\Obamacare\propaganda\Obamacare myths\government</let></div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><let name=data index=TopicsGlobal>\Obamacare\propaganda\Obamacare myths\government</let></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><let name=data index=TextAbove>This is the mirror of [[User:Woozle/blog/2011-01-13 1110 Obamacare myth the first|Myth #1]], but it's worth examining in its own right because Republicans are seriously arguing that this is necessary to help reverse the deficit -- and people are believing them.</let></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><let name=data index=TextAbove>This is the mirror of [[User:Woozle/blog/2011-01-13 1110 Obamacare myth the first|Myth #1]], but it's worth examining in its own right because Republicans are seriously arguing that this is necessary to help reverse the deficit -- and <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">'''</ins>people are believing them<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">'''</ins>.</let></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><let name=data index=TextBelow>Repealing Obamacare will ''cost'' in excess of $200 billion.</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><let name=data index=TextBelow>Repealing Obamacare will ''cost'' in excess of $200 billion.</div></td></tr>
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</table>Woozlehttps://hypertwins.org/mw/index.php?title=User:Woozle/blog/2011-01-15_1138_Obamacare_myth_the_fourth&diff=14844&oldid=prevWoozle: new page from form at http://wiki.hypertwins.org/HypertWiki:Forms/blog/post2011-01-15T16:38:26Z<p>new page from form at http://wiki.hypertwins.org/HypertWiki:Forms/blog/post</p>
<p><b>New page</b></p><div><hide><br />
<let name=data index=Title>Obamacare myth the fourth</let><br />
<let name=data index=User>Woozle</let><br />
<let name=data index=TopicsUser></let><br />
<let name=data index=TopicsGlobal>\Obamacare\propaganda\Obamacare myths\government</let><br />
<let name=data index=TextAbove>This is the mirror of [[User:Woozle/blog/2011-01-13 1110 Obamacare myth the first|Myth #1]], but it's worth examining in its own right because Republicans are seriously arguing that this is necessary to help reverse the deficit -- and people are believing them.</let><br />
<let name=data index=TextBelow>Repealing Obamacare will ''cost'' in excess of $200 billion.<br />
<br />
This bit of information is brought to us by The Congressional Budget Office (CBO). We talked about them [[User:Woozle/blog/2011-01-13 1110 Obamacare myth the first|earlier]] because of their estimate that Obamacare would reduce the deficit by $143 billion over the first decade and by $1.2 trillion in the second decade.<br />
<br />
I should probably have mentioned that the CBO is a non-partisan agency; Republicans often cite and use their figures.<br />
<br />
The $220b figure is based on expected losses of $770b, offset by savings of $540b.<br />
<br />
The best reason to mention this fact is [http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/256615/about-cbo-score-obamacare-repeal-daniel-foster this lovely bit of Republican spin] ([http://acandidworld.com/2011/01/07/well-that-didnt-take-long-nro-spins-gops-deficit-increase-plan/ h/t]) on those numbers:<br />
<blockquote>...the CBO is saying repealing Obamacare would shrink the size of government by $770 billion over a ten-year period.</blockquote><br />
<br />
This is fascinating for two reasons.<br />
<br />
'''Minor point''': it seems they accept the accuracy of the CBO's numbers -- at least as far as the $770b losses. Their interpretation of those numbers is another matter.<br />
<br />
'''Major point''': They are taking a $770b ''increase in the deficit'', labeling it as a ''reduction in the size of government'', and thereby ''declaring that to be a good thing''.{{footnote|1}}<br />
<br />
In other words, '''an increase in the deficit is hailed as a good thing'''. As one commenter observed, this is part of why liberals have a hard time believing that conservatives are serious about reducing the deficit.<br />
<br />
Whether or not you think government should be smaller, there is a difference between (a) increasing the size of the government's obligations and (b) preventing the government from meeting its existing obligations. That $770b falls squarely into the latter category.<br />
<br />
Conservatives often emphasize the importance of "personal responsibility", but apparently ensuring that America meets its obligations doesn't count as responsibility.<br />
<br />
Most importantly, though: repealing Obamacare will deepen the deficit.<br />
<br />
If you don't believe the CBO's numbers, you need to explain ''why'' -- and remember that ''National Review'' apparently believes them.<br />
==Footnote==<br />
<small><br />
{{footnote/target|1}}One commenter on that thread took it even further:<blockquote>$770b in taxes we won't need to pay, and $540b we won't need to spend. We save $1.31 trillion just by repealing Obamacare.</blockquote>(She even called this thinking "Democratic math", but didn't give any justification for this.) The fact that nobody pointed out the flaw in this logic makes me wonder if they possibly actually think that ''any flow of money to or from the government'' somehow increases the deficit... presumably because it means you're "spending money".<br />
<br />
Was that statement a [[issuepedia:Poe's Law|Poe]], and understood as such by all other commenters, or is that really how they think?<br />
</small></let><br />
<br />
<let name=data index=TimeStamp>2011-01-15 1138</let><br />
</hide><noinclude><if not flag=including>{{:project:code/lib/data}}<call ShowBlogPostPage></if></noinclude></div>Woozle