Legal Music Trading Group - Revision history

Woozle: Reverted edits by MEchols96 (talk) to last revision by Woozle

2011-10-01T18:26:29Z

Reverted edits by MEchols96 (talk) to last revision by Woozle

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:26, 1 October 2011
Line 5:		Line 5:
	This has the advantage of giving some "ear time" to some seriously overlooked artists and hopefully finding some overlooked tracks, rather than rewarding the monopolistic traditional-license record labels for their possessiveness and unwillingness to change.		This has the advantage of giving some "ear time" to some seriously overlooked artists and hopefully finding some overlooked tracks, rather than rewarding the monopolistic traditional-license record labels for their possessiveness and unwillingness to change.

	It can also be kept legal as it scales up; , for example, lets you for small-quantity reproduction. They also allow you to legally give away three copies of tracks you've purchased. So once the group starts to get to be more than a handful of people, you could purchase a license for any <span class="plainlinks">[http://www.dcmarketingconsultant.com/ <span style="color:black;font-weight:normal;text-decoration:none!important;background:none!important; text-decoration:none;/CITATION/">online marketing consultant</span>]</span> Magnatune tracks you wanted and legally sell the CDs on which you included them, with a small markup to cover burning costs, and of course adding on for shipping costs. (We'd have to see how the economics worked out once we actually had some track selections to get prices for; it may be that Magnatune is charging too much to make the resulting CDs affordable, but it's definitely worth the experimentation to find this out, in my view. Magnatune and others are still largely testing the waters, and I suspect that they'd be very interested in hearing our feedback.)		It can also be kept legal as it scales up; [http://magnatune.com/ Magnatune], for example, lets you [http://magnatune.com/artists/license/unit?artist=Brad+Sucks&album=I+Dont+Know+What+Im+Doing&genre=Rock instantly license tracks] for small-quantity reproduction. They also allow you to legally give away three copies of tracks you've purchased. So once the group starts to get to be more than a handful of people, you could purchase a license for any Magnatune tracks you wanted and legally sell the CDs on which you included them, with a small markup to cover burning costs, and of course adding on for shipping costs. (We'd have to see how the economics worked out once we actually had some track selections to get prices for; it may be that Magnatune is charging too much to make the resulting CDs affordable, but it's definitely worth the experimentation to find this out, in my view. Magnatune and others are still largely testing the waters, and I suspect that they'd be very interested in hearing our feedback.)

	Once you get to the point of having a handful of handfuls of people, it starts becoming worthwhile to set up a web site to help people find groups with similar tastes. It can start simply, however, with just a few people in a chat room agreeing to participate, with no formal structure needed.		Once you get to the point of having a handful of handfuls of people, it starts becoming worthwhile to set up a web site to help people find groups with similar tastes. It can start simply, however, with just a few people in a chat room agreeing to participate, with no formal structure needed.

MEchols96: None

2011-10-01T18:10:41Z

None

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:10, 1 October 2011
Line 5:		Line 5:
	This has the advantage of giving some "ear time" to some seriously overlooked artists and hopefully finding some overlooked tracks, rather than rewarding the monopolistic traditional-license record labels for their possessiveness and unwillingness to change.		This has the advantage of giving some "ear time" to some seriously overlooked artists and hopefully finding some overlooked tracks, rather than rewarding the monopolistic traditional-license record labels for their possessiveness and unwillingness to change.

	It can also be kept legal as it scales up; ~~[http://magnatune.com/ Magnatune]~~, for example, lets you ~~[http://magnatune.com/artists/license/unit?artist=Brad+Sucks&album=I+Dont+Know+What+Im+Doing&genre=Rock instantly license tracks]~~ for small-quantity reproduction. They also allow you to legally give away three copies of tracks you've purchased. So once the group starts to get to be more than a handful of people, you could purchase a license for any Magnatune tracks you wanted and legally sell the CDs on which you included them, with a small markup to cover burning costs, and of course adding on for shipping costs. (We'd have to see how the economics worked out once we actually had some track selections to get prices for; it may be that Magnatune is charging too much to make the resulting CDs affordable, but it's definitely worth the experimentation to find this out, in my view. Magnatune and others are still largely testing the waters, and I suspect that they'd be very interested in hearing our feedback.)		It can also be kept legal as it scales up; , for example, lets you for small-quantity reproduction. They also allow you to legally give away three copies of tracks you've purchased. So once the group starts to get to be more than a handful of people, you could purchase a license for any <span class="plainlinks">[http://www.dcmarketingconsultant.com/ <span style="color:black;font-weight:normal;text-decoration:none!important;background:none!important; text-decoration:none;/CITATION/">online marketing consultant</span>]</span> Magnatune tracks you wanted and legally sell the CDs on which you included them, with a small markup to cover burning costs, and of course adding on for shipping costs. (We'd have to see how the economics worked out once we actually had some track selections to get prices for; it may be that Magnatune is charging too much to make the resulting CDs affordable, but it's definitely worth the experimentation to find this out, in my view. Magnatune and others are still largely testing the waters, and I suspect that they'd be very interested in hearing our feedback.)

	Once you get to the point of having a handful of handfuls of people, it starts becoming worthwhile to set up a web site to help people find groups with similar tastes. It can start simply, however, with just a few people in a chat room agreeing to participate, with no formal structure needed.		Once you get to the point of having a handful of handfuls of people, it starts becoming worthwhile to set up a web site to help people find groups with similar tastes. It can start simply, however, with just a few people in a chat room agreeing to participate, with no formal structure needed.

Woozle: /* related idea from 2003 */ I don't think I actually meant "trademark"

2008-02-09T03:29:31Z

related idea from 2003: I don't think I actually meant "trademark"

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:29, 9 February 2008
Line 44:		Line 44:
	-- e.g. if the listener had paid for that right for that song -- assuming that		-- e.g. if the listener had paid for that right for that song -- assuming that
	is something we would want to limit. (My inclination would be rather that each		is something we would want to limit. (My inclination would be rather that each
	song should be accompanied by an "audio trademark" as discussed earlier,		song should be accompanied by an "audio <s>trademark</s>watermark" as discussed earlier,
	identifying the source at least by artist and artist's URL, possibly also by		identifying the source at least by artist and artist's URL, possibly also by
	album and song title, with free copying of the song+trademark encouraged and		album and song title, with free copying of the song+trademark encouraged and
Line 73:		Line 73:

	Thoughts? Comments? Bueller? Bueller?		Thoughts? Comments? Bueller? Bueller?

	==further elaboration==		==further elaboration==
	''from my response to Brian B.'s response, 2003-01-26''		''from my response to Brian B.'s response, 2003-01-26''

Woozle: brief contextual intro

2008-02-09T03:27:12Z

brief contextual intro

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:27, 9 February 2008
Line 1:		Line 1:
	[[Category:Woozle ideas]]There are a number of sites providing legal downloads of music which is licensed to encourage copying. Instead of trading tracks from our existing collection of extremely copyrighted CDs and downloads, we each go out trawling the various sites dedicated to freely-tradeable music, find the best of that stuff, and use it to create mix CDs. (I have to give Thorog credit for the original idea of getting a bunch of people to fill up a pre-designated space with MP3 tracks, and then burning the results as CDs and distributing them... possibly for a small fee to cover materials and postage.)		[[Category:Woozle ideas]]The idea goes thusly:

			There are a number of sites providing legal downloads of music which is licensed to encourage copying. Instead of trading tracks from our existing collection of extremely copyrighted CDs and downloads, we each go out trawling the various sites dedicated to freely-tradeable music, find the best of that stuff, and use it to create mix CDs. (I have to give Thorog credit for the original idea of getting a bunch of people to fill up a pre-designated space with MP3 tracks, and then burning the results as CDs and distributing them... possibly for a small fee to cover materials and postage.)

	This has the advantage of giving some "ear time" to some seriously overlooked artists and hopefully finding some overlooked tracks, rather than rewarding the monopolistic traditional-license record labels for their possessiveness and unwillingness to change.		This has the advantage of giving some "ear time" to some seriously overlooked artists and hopefully finding some overlooked tracks, rather than rewarding the monopolistic traditional-license record labels for their possessiveness and unwillingness to change.

Woozle: /* Note */ note about further discussion

2007-02-23T13:37:29Z

Note: note about further discussion

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:37, 23 February 2007
Line 328:		Line 328:

	Sites which provide video via torrent seem not to be having this problem, even though their indexing is very basic (searching by description, with filtering by type of download - audio, TV, movie...). I'm not understanding why the VOD services had such a hard time with it, except that they were trying to provide the service without a proper interface.		Sites which provide video via torrent seem not to be having this problem, even though their indexing is very basic (searching by description, with filtering by type of download - audio, TV, movie...). I'm not understanding why the VOD services had such a hard time with it, except that they were trying to provide the service without a proper interface.

			''There was much more discussion of this in further emails.''

Woozle: /* further elaboration */ reply from Brian; note from W in realtime

2007-02-23T13:33:34Z

further elaboration: reply from Brian; note from W in realtime

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:33, 23 February 2007
Line 289:		Line 289:
	it's not as much an issue as I thought, and that the quality/selection issue is		it's not as much an issue as I thought, and that the quality/selection issue is
	perhaps the obstacle to tackle first...		perhaps the obstacle to tackle first...
			==more from Brian==
			N. Staddon wrote:

			{{quoteon}}
			{{quoteon}}
			If you can solve this problem, the world will beat a path to your
			door. It's a big freaking deal, and Comcast would use it to sell VOD
			movies today. Or, just use it to launch a platform like you're
			talking about.
			{{quoteoff}}
			VOD = Video On Demand? I suspect there are large gaps in my knowledge
			of this market... By "this problem", are we still talking about the
			taste/quality issue, getting the right selection to each user? Or
			something else? Seems to me that if some large studio would just put
			all their movies online for download at a reasonable price (less than
			a VHS copy), they could make zillions. They're just afraid of "losses"
			due to copying. (My premise is that those lost revenues are mainly
			wishful thinking (as with MP3s), but there's only sketchy data yet...)
			{{quoteoff}}
			VOD = Video On Demand. There's a serious problem: put all the movies
			online, and then how to people find the movies they want? You can work
			out the storage yourself (say, a 1TB server, and a DVD is 4ish GB), and
			you can't have all the movies available to all people -- but even if you
			can (there are technical ways to do so, but it's expensive), people have
			to find what they like!

			VOD exists in many major cities today, and the uptake rates are sucky.
			Why? Part is the cost - putting in the infrastructure was expensive. To
			justify the cost, you want to find a good movie. Out of the 200 that
			might be on your local server, how do you find the one you want to
			watch? That's what stops people from buying movies over their TV today
			(in the markets where it's widespread -- and in the other markets,
			they're afraid to put it in until it proves itself).

			More later --
			===Note===
			''(from W., 2007-02-23)''

			Sites which provide video via torrent seem not to be having this problem, even though their indexing is very basic (searching by description, with filtering by type of download - audio, TV, movie...). I'm not understanding why the VOD services had such a hard time with it, except that they were trying to provide the service without a proper interface.

Woozle: /* related idea from 2003 */ more elaboration

2007-02-23T13:29:17Z

related idea from 2003: more elaboration

Show changes

Woozle: related idea from 2003

2007-02-23T13:04:35Z

related idea from 2003

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:04, 23 February 2007
Line 6:		Line 6:

	Once you get to the point of having a handful of handfuls of people, it starts becoming worthwhile to set up a web site to help people find groups with similar tastes. It can start simply, however, with just a few people in a chat room agreeing to participate, with no formal structure needed.		Once you get to the point of having a handful of handfuls of people, it starts becoming worthwhile to set up a web site to help people find groups with similar tastes. It can start simply, however, with just a few people in a chat room agreeing to participate, with no formal structure needed.
			==related idea from 2003==
			''from an email I sent to Brian B. on 2003-01-20''

			The problem with internet radio as it is now (legal issues aside) is twofold:

			1. It ties up your bandwidth (especially for those of us using dial-up, but even
			with cable or DSL it can be a struggle)

			2. The quality sucks

			WHAT IF...

			(By mutual consent between the netcaster and the copyright holder thus bypassing
			existing royalty laws, which would seem to be a key part of The GnuMusiq Model)
			(Did I mention that I got the domain gnumusiq.com?)

			...you could run an application which would, when your computer and internet
			connection were otherwise largely idle, download high-quality MP3s of a given
			"station"s programming for later playback either on your computer or on an MP3
			player?

			Without getting too technical, it looks like at _really_ high quality (Xing
			VBR-hi), it would be pretty easy to get a little over half an hour of
			programming by downloading overnight. With a little sacrifice of quality (but
			not nearly as much as required for streaming, and doubtless unnoticeable to many
			listeners -- and remember, FM quality never was CD quality), plus additional
			downloading during the day, it should be possible to extend this many times
			over. (Or possibly we could use another encoding scheme such as VQF, which
			delivers similar quality with significantly smaller files.)

			Given this arrangement, several additional possibilities suggest themselves.

			The downloader app could be configured to make it difficult to "split off"
			individual songs (into separate MP3s or WAVs) without permission from the artist
			-- e.g. if the listener had paid for that right for that song -- assuming that
			is something we would want to limit. (My inclination would be rather that each
			song should be accompanied by an "audio trademark" as discussed earlier,
			identifying the source at least by artist and artist's URL, possibly also by
			album and song title, with free copying of the song+trademark encouraged and
			revenue generated at the website by a number of means. The downloader app could
			include a player which would make it easy to find the artist's web site and buy
			merch or sponsorships or whatever...)

			The downloader app could also aid with the downloading of purchased CD-quality
			MP3s (or VQFs or even WAVs, according to taste) unencumbered by audio trademarks
			or whatever else we put in the "free" version to encourage purchasing of the
			non-free version.

			I don't know how anyone else would receive this, but if it were available right
			now I'd install that sucker and start downloading some radio tonight. (Half an
			hour per day might be all I'd have time to listen to anyhow.) I'd also have no
			hesitation about submitting all my original recordings. (Then again, I'm
			probably not in the same position as a working band; my recordings are not being
			heard, much less generating any revenue, as they are.)

			(Another thought which arrived while I was finishing up this email: I think many
			people (fans) would pay for the privilege of having their name -- just their
			name, or their business's name; no "plugs" or other advertising -- on a band's
			web site, prominently displayed but not necessarily on the home page; more like
			a separate sponsorship page, with nice layout. Like sponsoring the little league
			or NPR or a museum or something... More popular bands would get bigger sponsors;
			sponsors could pay different amounts for different font sizes, additional
			graphics...)

			Thoughts? Comments? Bueller? Bueller?

Woozle: thorog's original idea

2006-07-27T01:37:31Z

thorog's original idea

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:37, 27 July 2006
Line 1:		Line 1:
	[[Category:Woozle ideas]]There are a number of sites providing legal downloads of music which is licensed to encourage copying. Instead of trading tracks from our existing collection of extremely copyrighted CDs and downloads, we each go out trawling the various sites dedicated to freely-tradeable music, find the best of that stuff, and use it for ~~sharing instead~~.		[[Category:Woozle ideas]]There are a number of sites providing legal downloads of music which is licensed to encourage copying. Instead of trading tracks from our existing collection of extremely copyrighted CDs and downloads, we each go out trawling the various sites dedicated to freely-tradeable music, find the best of that stuff, and use it to create mix CDs. (I have to give Thorog credit for the original idea of getting a bunch of people to fill up a pre-designated space with MP3 tracks, and then burning the results as CDs and distributing them... possibly for a small fee to cover materials and postage.)

	This has the advantage of giving some "ear time" to some seriously overlooked artists and hopefully finding some overlooked tracks, rather than rewarding the monopolistic traditional-license record labels for their possessiveness and unwillingness to change.		This has the advantage of giving some "ear time" to some seriously overlooked artists and hopefully finding some overlooked tracks, rather than rewarding the monopolistic traditional-license record labels for their possessiveness and unwillingness to change.

Woozle at 00:58, 27 July 2006

2006-07-27T00:58:45Z

New page

[[Category:Woozle ideas]]There are a number of sites providing legal downloads of music which is licensed to encourage copying. Instead of trading tracks from our existing collection of extremely copyrighted CDs and downloads, we each go out trawling the various sites dedicated to freely-tradeable music, find the best of that stuff, and use it for sharing instead.

This has the advantage of giving some "ear time" to some seriously overlooked artists and hopefully finding some overlooked tracks, rather than rewarding the monopolistic traditional-license record labels for their possessiveness and unwillingness to change.

It can also be kept legal as it scales up; [http://magnatune.com/ Magnatune], for example, lets you [http://magnatune.com/artists/license/unit?artist=Brad+Sucks&album=I+Dont+Know+What+Im+Doing&genre=Rock instantly license tracks] for small-quantity reproduction. They also allow you to legally give away three copies of tracks you've purchased. So once the group starts to get to be more than a handful of people, you could purchase a license for any Magnatune tracks you wanted and legally sell the CDs on which you included them, with a small markup to cover burning costs, and of course adding on for shipping costs. (We'd have to see how the economics worked out once we actually had some track selections to get prices for; it may be that Magnatune is charging too much to make the resulting CDs affordable, but it's definitely worth the experimentation to find this out, in my view. Magnatune and others are still largely testing the waters, and I suspect that they'd be very interested in hearing our feedback.)

Once you get to the point of having a handful of handfuls of people, it starts becoming worthwhile to set up a web site to help people find groups with similar tastes. It can start simply, however, with just a few people in a chat room agreeing to participate, with no formal structure needed.